#41 - Simon Jones: Addressing poor ventilation performance in homes, damp and mould.

Improving indoor air quality isn't just a matter of comfort—it's a critical health issue. 

On episode 41 of the Air Quality Matters podcast, I, make the statement that many home ventilation systems are failing us, leading to dire health and financial consequences. 

Listen in as I unravel the inefficiencies plaguing our ventilation installations, and lay out a strategic plan for setting clear expectations and ensuring rigorous performance checks. 

As winter looms, the fight against condensation, damp, and mould intensifies in the UK. Reflecting on the legislative responses they’ve spurred, we highlight the pressing need for improved ventilation systems to safeguard public health. 

This episode calls for a paradigm shift—encouraging landlords, housing providers, and policymakers to prioritize long-term preventive measures over short-term fixes. 

Explore the significant role of public education in fostering healthier living conditions and how we can collectively push for a future where indoor air quality is a non-negotiable standard. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Improving Indoor Air Quality Standards
• 12:29 Improved Indoor Air Quality Needed

Transcript

Simon: 0:00

Air Quality Matters and I believe we already have the tools and knowledge we need to make a difference. The conversations we have and how we share what we know is the key to our success. I'm Simon Jones and this is episode 41 of the Air Quality Matters podcast coming up. In this episode it's just me again this week and we're going to talk about getting what we pay for and the challenges of measuring ventilation and a bit of a war cry for yet another winter season of tackling damp and mold in this part of the world. Thanks for listening. As always, do check out the sponsors in the show notes and at airqualitymattersnet.

Simon: 0:58

This is the Air Quality Matters podcast. We've covered bits of this before so I'm not going to dive deep into the subject matter. But objectively, when we look at the quality of the ventilation systems we are getting out there in the real world, in houses, people's homes, on balance, more often than not we're not getting what we have paid good money for and this should trouble us as individuals in our own homes because, according to the numbers, the research that I see, there is somewhere between a one in three and two in three chance you are one of them, someone who has bought a home, upgraded your existing home or simply replaced replaced a fan that has an outcome that is not adequate. But as a society or state, that should trouble us too, not just because of the impacts of poor ventilation has on health and well-being outcomes across society, but also on productivity and absenteeism. The list is long and costly. And this is the public purse, remember public money that is not being well spent at an enormous scale. It's a double hit. Think about it. Government grants, for example, for retrofit, millions and millions that, even if not directly funding ventilation as part of the works, often have an expectation tied into that funding that the ventilation should be adequate. We lose on the outlay of money and we lose on its impacts on our health and well-being and productivity as a society. It's a double hit.

Simon: 2:45

One of the things I try to do with some of the organisations I work with is address this gap and it's a hard gap to close. The road to poor ventilation outcomes in housing, say, is long, has a history and the supply chain is complex, opinionatedated and awash with vested interest. Quite frankly, this battle of sorting out, upskilling, supervising, mediating and everything else that goes with this is hard and complex and no one, especially providers of, say, social housing, has the time or resources to sort it out. Has the time or resources to sort it out. So one of the strategies I've been developing with them is a kind of a bookend of a quality assurance process that lays out and defines responsibility at the beginning and the end of the process. In a way, let the supply chain fight it out in the middle. What in essence we try to do is define clearly what our expectations are for the appropriate design and specification of a ventilation system and its performances and define clearly and lay out what our expectations are on the commission and quality assurance at the end of the process. In plain English, if the design is correct and I check I got what I pay for at the end of the process, I don't really mind too much what happened in the middle. Accountability in the bookends drives collective accountability in this messy middle, the messy whataboutism, marketing wonkery from manufacturers, usual shenanigans on site and so on and so on. Clearly laying out how I am going to ensure I get what I have paid for is the key, and the metric is not have I installed a fan in a bathroom and it's being connected? It is. Have I defined what is appropriate and checked it is delivering that.

Simon: 4:49

There are two challenges with this approach, however Ensuring that the design is right and someone is accountable for it, and that I get an accurate measurement of the performance of that system at the end. It's basic stuff, really, but it can be difficult to nail. What is competency when it comes to design? How do I define accountability, who can be a designer and at what point does this or should this happen? And a bunch of other things, but essentially it's about policies and workflows, understanding when and where you need a competent design and how you go about getting it.

Simon: 5:32

However, assuming that we've nailed that and we now have a plan that makes sense and defines a result, one of the big challenges we face now is having confidence that we got what we paid for. Often, this requires new procedures and workflows because, let's face it, we haven't really been checking this before, but this is something if you think about it. We can and should hold the supply chain accountable for it's something they should have been doing anyway, so it doesn't necessarily require an extra cost on our part sometimes. But perhaps the bigger of the challenges is having confidence in the results when we measure performance. This is a new concept to the ventilation industry that they might actually have to measure what they've installed and the level of skill and knowledge and let's be realistic numbers of people out there that can currently do this.

Simon: 6:35

We're a very, very, very long way from where it needs to be and the standards or guidance that have been written for much of this are, in many cases, pretty old and probably well out of date at this stage. The type and performance of fans on the marketplace now compared, for example, when the Bisria guide something in the UK that was written to test ventilation performance was written is nearly 15 years old and probably isn't fit for purpose. Realistically and worryingly, these approaches of unconditional and conditional testing methodologies, including minimum benchmark methods, are misunderstood, misapplied and probably giving false assurance and confidence in the results by those that are using the equipment. This is important to get right for a whole host of reasons, but not least that we can have confidence that we have got what we've paid good money for. In my approach, for example, it starts to break down if one of these critical bookends in the quality assurance process can't be delivered on, and this is something I am having to plan for and work around with the organisations I'm working with. To give you a simple example, I did a quick straw poll before this podcast.

Simon: 7:59

Here in Ireland For those that aren't from here we have a regulation for ventilation that requires that all residential buildings that have to comply with building standards basically that's all new or significantly renovated buildings have to have a third-party validation of the performance of the ventilation system. Basically, an independent contractor comes in and measures the ventilation and makes sure that it meets the design, the compliant design. These are registered providers through a national scheme that check the flow rates and compliance of the installed system. Of the handful I spoke to, not one of them properly understood the impact of the different testing methods and the boundary conditions of their application on some of the ventilation system types. It's fair to say that there is a false confidence in the accuracy of their work and that this is misplaced and may need addressing. A good example of this is the measurement of decentralized extract fans, for example, with non-powered flow hoods. Not only is there a misunderstanding of the limitations of this approach, but it's compounded by the limited information readily available and critically in a format from manufacturers that would even allow for accurate calculations to be made. With so many homes needing retrofit over the next few years and a hope that decentralized fans offer in easing the installation in these challenges. They're definitely here to stay and probably scale and as far as I can tell, we don't really have a plan for these systems other than, for example, in england, in the consultation for the revision of their regulations, their adf, where their hope is that all systems are measured via a powered flow hood. Whether that makes it through or the industry is capable of ramping up to thousands of three and a half grand pieces of kit that will also need calibrating every year may not be realistic and possibly won't get through consultation anyway. If we're going to take ventilation performance seriously, we're going to have to get serious about measuring it, have a plan, understand the limitations of certain approaches and fix this, because unless we have confidence in the results we're seeing from these kind of tests, we're never ultimately going to know we're getting what we're paying for. Just going to grab your attention for a minute.

Simon: 10:43

I wanted to quickly tell you about Lindab, a partner of this podcast. For over 60 years Lindab has been dedicated to improving the climate of buildings. I have known them and some of the great people who work there for as long as I have been in this industry. Lindab offers a broad range of products, from individual components to complete indoor climate solutions. Their systems not only promote better indoor environments but also deliver economic benefits. If you're working on a new building project, lindab's high air tightness products and demand controlled ventilation systems are designed to meet the stringent energy efficiency requirements of today and align with environmental certifications. If you're renovating, lindab's smart units can upgrade existing systems, reducing energy consumption by up to 70% with minimal impact on the building structure. Lindab's products meet the certification standards for BREEAM, leed, dgnb and many more, ensuring optimal environmental performance. And if you're looking to simplify your design process, their range of ventilation software and tools make product selection, calculation and performance evaluations quite straightforward. Creating healthy spaces is at the core of Lindab's mission, which is why at Air Quality Matters we are so pleased to have them as a partner with this podcast. Do check them out in the podcast notes at airqualitymattersnet and, of course, at lindabie.

Simon: 12:29

Back to the podcast, on to a bit of a war cry really, for condensation, damp and mould and another season of battling it, certainly in this part of the world. As we approach another winter in the UK, it's vital, I think, to reflect on the lessons we've learned over the past few years about damp and mould in our homes. From high profile cases to legislation changes, the issue of poor indoor air quality has never been more in the spotlight. The Housing Ombudsman, the Regulator for Social Housing and the much discussed Auabs Law in the UK have all underscored the importance of tackling this problem head-on. But beyond the statistics, inspections and response times, there is an urgent need to fix the core issues the need for better ventilation and improved air quality in our homes.

Simon: 13:27

Damp and mould is not just a nuisance. They are health hazards, and the World Health Organization has long recognized the link between damp and mouldy environments and various health issues, including respiratory problems, allergies and even mental health conditions like anxiety and depression. In the UK, where cold, damp winters are common, these issues are particularly pronounced. Recent years have seen a growing awareness of the risks, partly driven by the tragic case of Awab Ishak, a two-year-old boy who died in 2020 after prolonged exposure to mould in his family's social housing flat. This case led to Awab's law, which mandates stricter timelines for landlords to address damp and mould complaints. The regulator for social housing and the housing ombudsman have also increased their scrutiny of housing conditions, holding landlords accountable for poor living conditions and slow response times to complaints. While these measures are important, they often focus on response times and the immediate remediation of damp and mould. The real solution, however, goes far beyond faster responses. It lies in preventing these issues from occurring in the first place, and this is where the focus on ventilation and air quality comes in. It's why ventilation matters.

Simon: 15:06

Proper ventilation is one of the most effective ways to combat damp and mould in homes. When moisture accumulates in the home from activities like cooking and bathing and drying clothes all normal activities it creates the perfect environment for mould to grow, and without adequate ventilation, this moisture has nowhere to go and it begins to seep deep into the walls and floors and ceilings, causing damage and posing serious health risks. And modern homes don't escape this either, particularly in countries like the UK, where often they're built to be energy efficient, with double glazing and insulated walls and draft proofing. And while these features help keep homes warm and reduce energy bills, they can also trap moisture inside, leading to condensation and mold growth. Energy efficiency and ventilation need to go hand in hand. We must seal our homes from the cold, but we mustn't forget we've got to live in them too.

Simon: 16:15

The focus of current policies and regulations has been on conducting stock condition surveys to assess the state of housing and identify issues like damper mould, particularly in the last couple of years. And while these surveys are a step in the right direction, they only really scratch the surface of the problem. We need to move beyond just identifying issues and start addressing the underlying causes and, to lean on my earlier points, rarely, if ever, is ventilation performance actually measured in these surveys. If ever, is ventilation performance actually measured in these surveys. Often it's limited to is there a fan and does it make a noise? And if you think I'm joking, just ask or check the stock condition survey sheets that you see. Very rarely, if ever, will you see ventilation flow rates actually measured.

Simon: 17:08

The Housing Ombudsman and the Regulator for Social Housing in the UK has begun to recognise this shift. The recent guidance emphasises the need for landlords to understand the root causes of the damp and mould, which often stem from inadequate ventilation. However, to truly make a difference, this understanding must be translated into action and better assessment of ventilation systems. This winter, we need to see more than just the stock condition surveys and faster response times, in my opinion, we need to see commitment to improve ventilation systems in homes across the UK this winter. We need to see more than just stock condition surveys and faster response times. In my opinion, we need to see a commitment to improve ventilation systems in homes across the UK, particularly in social housing, where many of our most vulnerable people live. This includes installing mechanical ventilation systems properly where necessary, ensuring windows are fit for purpose and helping residents to understand how to ventilate their homes effectively and, most importantly, why this is important.

Simon: 18:23

Retrofitting existing buildings to improve ventilation can be challenging and costly, especially in older properties where they're not designed with modern ventilation standards in mind. However, the cost of inaction is far greater. Studies have shown time and time again that the health costs associated with damp and mold, including health care costs and lost productivity, can far outweigh the costs of improving ventilation. Retrofitting does not always have to mean installing complex mechanical systems. Sometimes, simple solutions can make huge differences.

Simon: 19:05

While improving the physical infrastructure is crucial, there is also a need for a cultural shift in how we think and talk about ventilation and air quality. Many residents are just simply unaware of how their daily activities contribute to moisture build-up and mould growth in the home. Landlords and housing providers should also be proactive in communicating with residents about these issues. They should provide clear, accessible information on how to prevent damp and mould, and they should be willing to listen and respond to residents' concerns. This two-way communication is essential to build trust and ensure that everyone is working together in the same direction to improve indoor air quality. As we head into this winter, the message should be clear Damper mould is not just a property issue. It's also a public health issue.

Simon: 20:03

The changes in policy, such as Arab's law, are important, but they are only the beginning. Now is the time for action. Landlords, housing providers and policy makers must focus on long-term solutions that go beyond quick fixes. By prioritising ventilation and air quality, we can create healthier homes and prevent the damage and distress caused by damp and mould. This means investing in better ventilation systems, both mechanical and natural, and educating residents about good ventilation practices and holding landlords accountable for maintaining healthy living conditions. We have the tools, the knowledge and the regulation to support and make these changes. The challenge now is how to implement them effectively. The health and well-being of thousands of residents literally depends on it. By taking a proactive approach and making ventilation and air quality a priority, we can achieve this goal. It's important to recognise that this is not just a national issue, like in the UK. It's a global one, and the work of organisations like the Change the Air Foundation in the States highlights the universal nature of the problem and demonstrates how effective advocacy and policy change can be when addressing poor indoor air quality.

Simon: 21:42

The Change the Air Foundation has been instrumental in pushing for stronger policies and legislation to address indoor air quality issues across various states in the US. Their efforts have focused on several key areas. One has been the state level legislation. The foundation has successfully advocated for multiple state bills at improving indoor air quality and standards state bills at improving indoor air quality and standards. For example, they have been involved in the passing of laws in states like Ohio, florida, illinois and Pennsylvania which mandate better disclosure of mould and water damage during real estate transactions and the establishment of certification requirements for mould inspections and remediators. These steps help ensure that remediation efforts are both safe and effective, protecting residents from inadequate and dangerous practices. They also take on federal initiatives. The Change the Air Foundation has championed legislative initiatives such as the Health at Home Act of 2023, which seek to establish a federal framework for indoor air quality standards. This act aims to promote awareness, improve building codes and ensure that all Americans have access to healthy indoor environments. And ensure that all Americans have access to healthy indoor environments.

Simon: 23:17

The Foundation's advocacy has helped bring these issues to the fore, highlighting the need for a national approach to managing indoor air quality. They take on the sizeable challenge of education and public awareness. Beyond policy and advocacy, the Foundation emphasises the importance of education. They work to raise awareness among both policymakers and the general public about the health risks associated with mould, mycotoxins, volatile organic compounds and other indoor pollutants. By connecting people with reliable information and resources, they empower individuals to make informed decisions and demand better standards from their landlords, builders and local government. And finally, they also support research. The foundation funds and supports research initiatives to better understand the impact of poor indoor air quality on health and develop effective interventions. This focus on research is crucial as it provides the evidence needed to drive change, to help identify best practices for mitigating indoor pollution.

Simon: 24:32

Pollution the efforts of the Change the Air Foundation show, I think, that the challenges faced by countries like the UK in addressing damp and mould are not unique. Poor indoor air quality is a global issue that requires a coordinated, multifaceted response From the UK to the US and beyond. Countries must recognise that improved indoor air quality is not just about fixing buildings. It's about safeguarding public health. As demonstrated in the US, there is a need for stronger regulations around indoor air quality and more robust enforcement mechanisms. And more robust enforcement mechanisms. This could mean new legislation similar to Awebs law in the UK, for example, which mandates quicker responses and remediation of mould issues. Globally, countries could adopt similar laws to ensure that indoor environments meet health and safety standards.

Simon: 25:29

Like the UK, many countries have been focused on improving energy efficiency in homes without considering the impact on ventilation. It's essential to promote solutions that balance energy efficiency with adequate ventilation to prevent the build-up of moisture and many other indoor pollutant sources. Countries should collaborate and share knowledge about best practices, research findings and policy success. The Change, the Air Foundation's advocacy, policy development and educational initiatives offer a valuable blueprint, I think, for other nations grappling with similar issues. The work underscores the global nature of the challenge posed by poor indoor air quality, whether it's damp and mould in the UK or the US. The need for comprehensive solutions that include policy changes, better ventilation and public education is clear this winter. As we address the issue locally, we must also recognise that we're part of a broader worldwide effort to create healthier indoor environments for everyone. By learning from each other and advocating for stronger, more unified approaches, we can move beyond temporary fixes and create lasting change.

Simon: 26:58

As the podcast positions, we already have many of the tools and much of the knowledge we need to make the difference. We need to the conversations we have and how we share this information is critical to our success. Thanks for listening, as always, but before you go, can I ask a favour? If you enjoyed the podcast and know someone else who might be interested, do spread the word and let's keep building this community. This podcast is brought to you in partnership with 21 Degrees, lindab, aeco, ultra Protect and Imbiote All great companies who share the vision of the podcast and aren't here by accident. Your support of them helps them support this show. Do check them out in the links and at airqualitymattersnet. See you next week. Thank you.